Game thread: UFL Championship, Birmingham Stallions vs San Antonio Brahmas, Sun June 16, 5:00 PM ET, FOX

[4th&long]

So here is the most successful spring league in the last three decades (granted not an impressive list to pick from but moreso the one that's making it, or at least way further than anyone else in that span), and we're talking about going back?


The timeslots are there, the audience is there. You don't need to reinvent the wheel to go from 10K to 15 and yet we need to do just that, all because of one issue that popped up in a market whose new stadium quite frankly doesn't seem to be much of an upgrade to its jurassic predecessor.

God it's like this board did become Reddit....................................................



 

I tend to agree... the timeslots and audience are there... and I think Fox likes this time frame.  Plus they did move up two weeks from USFL and it worked well.

Again on the heat... Its a  legit point but... Moving to Feb is not the answer IMO.  The UFL did NOT utilize its 3 domes late to avoid heat in 2024.  That may change in 2025 with more time to schedule.  Also with potentially up to 10 Friday night games, heat could be less an issue in 2025. 

Three changes with current March 30 start to mitigate heat:
1 - Better Dome usage,
2 - Earlier season scheduling in South stadiums and
3 - Friday NIGHT games

All these could mute the Heat issues to be a non-factor in 2025.

As far as Attendance - agreed - they don't need to reinvent the wheel.
Overall attendance down just 8% (51k), minor IMO and given the super short time given to launch the league.

Attn Thread: viewtopic.php?p=44417#p44417

Practically the entire season difference can be attributable to:
AR (-10k+),
SA (-15k) and  (plays in dome so heat was never an issue)
Houston's (-23.5k).

With almost half Houston, that will be addressed.  Plus likely increases in SA plus the three USFL legacy teams s/n/b a big deal to surpass XFL 2023.

[MGB01]

So here is the most successful spring league in the last three decades (granted not an impressive list to pick from but moreso the one that's making it, or at least way further than anyone else in that span), and we're talking about going back?


The timeslots are there, the audience is there. You don't need to reinvent the wheel to go from 10K to 15 and yet we need to do just that, all because of one issue that popped up in a market whose new stadium quite frankly doesn't seem to be much of an upgrade to its jurassic predecessor.

God it's like this board did become Reddit....................................................

I mean, if you can't see there are positives (for players AND fans) of moving the schedule back to February, I don't know what to tell you.

And the reverse is true as well, sure you had the 'MUH FATHER'S DAY' crowd pop up, and how much of that was cause of the BattleHawks losing? Oh closer to 100% than you give it. But yes, by all means, disappearing into BOLO status for five weeks during the NCAA Tournament and build to it was such a huge benefit to the XFL in 2023, it was like having Taylor Swift!

The situation steve brought up with the heat was not a problem just in Birmingham; we saw many players late in the season at various venues suffer due to the heat. It's reasonable to think fans in those venues were suffering, too, and more importantly perhaps was keeping them from attending in the first place. When you have so many franchises in the south, being played outside into late May and early June, that's going to continue happening.

OK what happens when you have either unseasonably warm days in April or a freeze like in Texas in Feb 2021? What then without getting completely ridiculous (or, Rediculous)?

But players/agents overwhelmingly prefer the earlier start and that should be taken into account, too. 

That seems suspicious. I'd say on average, it's like comparing LaCale London (BattleHawks>Falcons) to Khalil Davis (Stallions>Texans), no real difference. That's actual data, not unverified claims.

[GregParks]

So here is the most successful spring league in the last three decades (granted not an impressive list to pick from but moreso the one that's making it, or at least way further than anyone else in that span), and we're talking about going back?


The timeslots are there, the audience is there. You don't need to reinvent the wheel to go from 10K to 15 and yet we need to do just that, all because of one issue that popped up in a market whose new stadium quite frankly doesn't seem to be much of an upgrade to its jurassic predecessor.

God it's like this board did become Reddit....................................................

I mean, if you can't see there are positives (for players AND fans) of moving the schedule back to February, I don't know what to tell you.

And the reverse is true as well, sure you had the 'MUH FATHER'S DAY' crowd pop up, and how much of that was cause of the BattleHawks losing? Oh closer to 100% than you give it. But yes, by all means, disappearing into BOLO status for five weeks during the NCAA Tournament and build to it was such a huge benefit to the XFL in 2023, it was like having Taylor Swift!

Of course the reverse is true and there are positives to keeping the schedule the way it is. I even mentioned it in my post, ya know, the part that you suspiciously chose not to quote in your reply.

The situation steve brought up with the heat was not a problem just in Birmingham; we saw many players late in the season at various venues suffer due to the heat. It's reasonable to think fans in those venues were suffering, too, and more importantly perhaps was keeping them from attending in the first place. When you have so many franchises in the south, being played outside into late May and early June, that's going to continue happening.

OK what happens when you have either unseasonably warm days in April or a freeze like in Texas in Feb 2021? What then without getting completely ridiculous (or, Rediculous)?

Unseasonably warm days in April probably beat the summer heat of June. But I agree, if you start in February you'll get winter in some places. It's a pick your poison deal. As someone who grew up in NY and now lives in Florida, to me it's easier to bundle up and stay warm than sit out in the heat and bake. But I acknowledge that's not the case for everyone.

But players/agents overwhelmingly prefer the earlier start and that should be taken into account, too. 

That seems suspicious. I'd say on average, it's like comparing LaCale London (BattleHawks>Falcons) to Khalil Davis (Stallions>Texans), no real difference. That's actual data, not unverified claims.

There were 69 players signed out of the XFL to the NFL last year, only 42 for the USFL. THAT'S actual data. You can't simply name one from each and shrug your shoulders and say "there's no difference!" A number of players chose the XFL over the USFL because of the timeline (most everything else being equal, look at how many players were in the USFL in 2022 and XFL in 2023), and even coaches like Jon Himebauch did. There's plenty of evidence in interviews on places like the Markcast and such.

[MGB01]

You mean the TLDR part I chose not to cause it meant very little to the actual conversation?

You also seem to forget that I was a bigger proponent of the XFL. What changed, or at least swung the pendulum the other way? Oh I don't know, buying half the season on ESPN2 and FX would kind of do the trick.

This was not sustainable for the XFL coming out of 2023 (much as a similar spot killed any momentum the Arena League had in 2006), that was a huge reason they jumped at the merger.

Where's the money is what it'll ultimately boil down to. Five leagues (including all three Xs) have tried the post SB spot in the last 25 years, none found it. Seems the most recent one that did April (end of March) has a come a lot closer. But now we're supposed to go back?

[GregParks]

You mean the TLDR part I chose not to cause it meant very little to the actual conversation?

You also seem to forget that I was a bigger proponent of the XFL. What changed, or at least swung the pendulum the other way? Oh I don't know, buying half the season on ESPN2 and FX would kind of do the trick.

This was not sustainable for the XFL coming out of 2023 (much as a similar spot killed any momentum the Arena League had in 2006), that was a huge reason they jumped at the merger.

Where's the money is what it'll ultimately boil down to. Five leagues (including all three Xs) have tried the post SB spot in the last 25 years, none found it. Seems the most recent one that did April (end of March) has a come a lot closer. But now we're supposed to go back?

It meant little to the actual conversation? Your first point to my post was "the reverse is true as well," that there are positives to keeping the schedule the way it is. That was the WHOLE POINT of my "TLDR" part!! I'm not sure how that means little to the conversation.

As for the rest of your post, again, a DIRECT QUOTE from my "TLDR" part: "I do think it may depend on what timeslots you can get on Fox/ABC; if they're just not there in February, that's a compelling reason to keep the March start."

So yes, I agree with you!! If the timeslots on ABC/Fox aren't there for an earlier start, then I would think long and hard about staying as-is or something close to it. As mentioned, there ARE compelling reasons to move back, IF you can get a REASONABLE number of games to stay on FOX/ABC and NOT move too many to the dregs of ESPN/FS1. 

[MGB01]

As for the rest of your post, again, a DIRECT QUOTE from my "TLDR" part: "I do think it may depend on what timeslots you can get on Fox/ABC; if they're just not there in February, that's a compelling reason to keep the March start."

So yes, I agree with you!! If the timeslots on ABC/Fox aren't there for an earlier start, then I would think long and hard about staying as-is or something close to it. As mentioned, there ARE compelling reasons to move back, IF you can get a REASONABLE number of games to stay on FOX/ABC and NOT move too many to the dregs of ESPN/FS1. 

 

OK what's going to be open in 2025 that wasn't there in 2023?

1. We don't have to rehash how the XFL ended up on ESPN2/FX for half the season, but with the NHL TV schedule reverting to 2023 where the SCF was on TNT and ABC got more regular season games that's undoubtedly out.
2. FOX also announced during the upfronts Friday night hoops, not only NCAAB but they also use it for MLS--they had one Sat this past season where they did that and then BB at night.

So faced with that five-week layout, and the only serious person even suggesting a move back is Oliver Luck (funny he ran the spring schedule for five years and it didn't seem to be much of a problem then), you would still be in favor of throwing away all the momentum for what exactly? And do you really think it's going to fix the one problem going forward?

[GregParks]

As for the rest of your post, again, a DIRECT QUOTE from my "TLDR" part: "I do think it may depend on what timeslots you can get on Fox/ABC; if they're just not there in February, that's a compelling reason to keep the March start."

So yes, I agree with you!! If the timeslots on ABC/Fox aren't there for an earlier start, then I would think long and hard about staying as-is or something close to it. As mentioned, there ARE compelling reasons to move back, IF you can get a REASONABLE number of games to stay on FOX/ABC and NOT move too many to the dregs of ESPN/FS1. 

 

OK what's going to be open in 2025 that wasn't there in 2023?

1. We don't have to rehash how the XFL ended up on ESPN2/FX for half the season, but with the NHL TV schedule reverting to 2023 where the SCF was on TNT and ABC got more regular season games that's undoubtedly out.
2. FOX also announced during the upfronts Friday night hoops, not only NCAAB but they also use it for MLS--they had one Sat this past season where they did that and then BB at night.

So faced with that five-week layout, and the only serious person even suggesting a move back is Oliver Luck (funny he ran the spring schedule for five years and it didn't seem to be much of a problem then), you would still be in favor of throwing away all the momentum for what exactly? And do you really think it's going to fix the one problem going forward?

I'll be honest, I haven't looked into the scheduling as much as you obviously have. So I'll take your word for what's available for the UFL and what's not.

If you're asking for the difference in 2023 vs. 2025, the big one would be the XFL didn't have FOX in 2023, which gives it double the TV partners to find space for the same amount of games (I don't have to remind you that they only had ESPN/ABC in '23, which is a big reason why so many games were relegated to lesser networks. There was just no way they'd fit four games on ABC in a weekend).

Let's assume they have one weekly game on Fox Friday nights. They've already promised to put games there but we don't know if it's weekly, semi-regularly, or what. With no expansion, that creates one less window on the weekend that you need to find on ABC/Fox. That's not counting the possibility they go back to regional games more frequently, which would then create just two TV windows you'd need during the weekend. Even with the sports those networks are carrying, does that make a February start more do-able? Again, I don't know the answer to that. Just something to consider.