We can choose to accept the league's statements that they made about $7.5 million in 2023 or not. That number was oft-repeated but poorly sourced. The fact that Fox was treating the USFL like reality-sports television and asserted that their business model relied upon television revenue and not ticket sales seems to indicate that the number is possible.
I promise not to go too far down this road because honestly all of this is irrelevant anyway but...
Let's do a little basic math. USFL players were paid about 53,000 per year last year. 50 players per team, that's about $21 million for player salary, not counting those on IR, etc. Then take into account coach salaries, salaries of league executives, insurance, rent to the stadiums, and on and on. A conservative estimate for all of that would be about $30 million. Now, if you assume they not only covered all of that cost PLUS made $7.5 million in profit (and remember, profit and revenue are NOT the same), then I'd ask anyone throwing around that number (not picking on you, steve) as gospel to show your work and tell me where that nearly $40 million in revenue came from.
Another way to look at this: The XFL and USFL were REALLY not that different in 2023 in how they operated. Same number of teams, similar number of players, salaries, etc. XFL paid their coaches a little more. The big differences were start-up costs (that probably was a big chunk of that $65 million in losses, which makes the comparison apples-to-oranges to begin with, because that would not be factored into a USFL season two) for the XFL, and the additional four stadium leases. Looking at how similar they really are, I don't see how you get the $70+ million difference between what the XFL is said to have lost and the USFL is said to have made.
Because USFL is a 100% owned property of Fox all the TV revenue (on Fox) was attributable to the USFL plus thr rights fee from NBC. While Disney kept all the TV revenue from XFL and paid them a minor rights fee. The higher overhead and startup cost at XFL were another part, plus USFL leveraged Fox back office. Its why RBC stepped in after the XFL yr and changed alot to be more like USFL and then merged because there was no way to like leagues were going to survice in spring and split the fan based.
We can choose to accept the league's statements that they made about $7.5 million in 2023 or not. That number was oft-repeated but poorly sourced. The fact that Fox was treating the USFL like reality-sports television and asserted that their business model relied upon television revenue and not ticket sales seems to indicate that the number is possible.
I promise not to go too far down this road because honestly all of this is irrelevant anyway but...
Let's do a little basic math. USFL players were paid about 53,000 per year last year. 50 players per team, that's about $21 million for player salary, not counting those on IR, etc. Then take into account coach salaries, salaries of league executives, insurance, rent to the stadiums, and on and on. A conservative estimate for all of that would be about $30 million. Now, if you assume they not only covered all of that cost PLUS made $7.5 million in profit (and remember, profit and revenue are NOT the same), then I'd ask anyone throwing around that number (not picking on you, steve) as gospel to show your work and tell me where that nearly $40 million in revenue came from.
Another way to look at this: The XFL and USFL were REALLY not that different in 2023 in how they operated. Same number of teams, similar number of players, salaries, etc. XFL paid their coaches a little more. The big differences were start-up costs (that probably was a big chunk of that $65 million in losses, which makes the comparison apples-to-oranges to begin with, because that would not be factored into a USFL season two) for the XFL, and the additional four stadium leases. Looking at how similar they really are, I don't see how you get the $70+ million difference between what the XFL is said to have lost and the USFL is said to have made.
Any money the USFL might have saved by only renting four stadiums for ten games instead of eight for five was more than wiped out by the near-complete absence of paying fans for the home games featuring New Jersey, Philadelphia, Houston and New Orleans.
We can choose to accept the league's statements that they made about $7.5 million in 2023 or not. That number was oft-repeated but poorly sourced. The fact that Fox was treating the USFL like reality-sports television and asserted that their business model relied upon television revenue and not ticket sales seems to indicate that the number is possible.
I promise not to go too far down this road because honestly all of this is irrelevant anyway but...
Let's do a little basic math. USFL players were paid about 53,000 per year last year. 50 players per team, that's about $21 million for player salary, not counting those on IR, etc. Then take into account coach salaries, salaries of league executives, insurance, rent to the stadiums, and on and on. A conservative estimate for all of that would be about $30 million. Now, if you assume they not only covered all of that cost PLUS made $7.5 million in profit (and remember, profit and revenue are NOT the same), then I'd ask anyone throwing around that number (not picking on you, steve) as gospel to show your work and tell me where that nearly $40 million in revenue came from.
Another way to look at this: The XFL and USFL were REALLY not that different in 2023 in how they operated. Same number of teams, similar number of players, salaries, etc. XFL paid their coaches a little more. The big differences were start-up costs (that probably was a big chunk of that $65 million in losses, which makes the comparison apples-to-oranges to begin with, because that would not be factored into a USFL season two) for the XFL, and the additional four stadium leases. Looking at how similar they really are, I don't see how you get the $70+ million difference between what the XFL is said to have lost and the USFL is said to have made.
Any money the USFL might have saved by only renting four stadiums for ten games instead of eight for five was more than wiped out by the near-complete absence of paying fans for the home games featuring New Jersey, Philadelphia, Houston and New Orleans.
Its not "on paper" its just leveraging the existing corporate overhead without getting charged internally. And usually the incremental cost to the parent is minimal, as they are paying that staff already Happens all the time. That's the benefit of being a big organization. RBC moved to that model after 2023 for XFL, they even stated in the SBJ article that the UFL would leverage both RBC and UFox exist backoffice, and other departments. Yes if they were a standalone org they would have to pay for those services but they arent, just like ABC and Disney or Disney+ to Disney.
I think the thing that was most poignant for me was the game earlier this season where the commentators compared the complexity of the opposing coach's pro-style play calling and the relatively simplistic plays that Skip relies upon. I believe they referred to him as a "college coach." I don't know why but that seems to be all it takes. Yes, Skip's relationship with his QBs is more like a mentor than a coach, and all of them seem to flourish under it. I say don't mess with it.
I was waiting for the first "break them up" comments. I have a friend who made shirts a few years ago in celebration of the Crimson Tide - "Knee Deep in a Dynasty" and I plan to get one to wear to the preseason events next year. I commented on social media earlier this year that the officiating felt like there was some "Birmingham fatigue" in the UFL and it seemed like no one, especially the former-XFL leadership, wanted to see the Stallions in the post-season. My answer here is the same as I said to other SEC fans about Alabama for years... "Get better!"
Skip and the Stallions can be beaten, and it doesn't take biased officiating to do it. The Brahmas did it. The Panthers were one uncharacteristic Bates missed kick from doing it in Week 10. It takes focus, determination, and a commitment to excellence. Trick plays and razzle-dazzle won't do it but solid game play will, so don't focus on what the league needs to do to the Stallions. Do what it takes and beat them on the field.
I think having NFL complexity is a mistake in this league, they have a short training camp with zero preseason games and a short season. Complexity is not going to serve you well. Skips mostly small college background is definitely helping him here.
The officiating was bad. I don't think it was anything to hurt Birmingham, the refs are all trying to get to the show like everyone else. Early in the game the Brahma's were given a 1st down on a play that looked to me to be not just short, but a good 2 yards short. I was shocked that the replay guy didn't buzz that one. Later on the game he did correct some other egregious calls.
Football is a game of imitation. Whatever skip is doing others will eventually duplicate. I do believe the Birmingham fan base has been an ingredient. Yes, the crowds are generally 8 to 10 K on average, but they are passionate and that is what matters more than the raw numbers. I was at the Conference championship game. It was a brutally hot day. I mean can kill you hot, but nobody left. except for those who left on stretchers going to the ER for heat stroke. Certainly St Louis has the most rabid and numerous fans but we all know they are doing that to impress the NFL to get another team.
I was at the Conference championship game. It was a brutally hot day. I mean can kill you hot, but nobody left. except for those who left on stretchers going to the ER for heat stroke. Certainly St Louis has the most rabid and numerous fans but we all know they are doing that to impress the NFL to get another team.
I'm going to harp on this and if we have an opportunity to speak with anyone from the league in preseason 2025, I'm going to bring it up.
I was coming off of two weeks of health problems significant enough to keep me home for the Week 10 Stallions/Panthers game (that doesn't happen). I made my way to the USFL conference game and got to the front row where I stood for the first half. By halftime, I had purchased and consumed 3 20 oz. bottles of water (by the end of the game I had purchased a total of 5). I went to find some shade at halftime and stood in front of the clubhouse doors to get the blast of cold air when they opened. I couldn't bring myself to go back into the sun so I stood up there and watched the Jumbotron throughout the 3rd quarter until the shade hit the front row.
It was brutally hot in spite of a rather temperate day. The UFL doesn't announce field temperatures, but I'd be surprised if the ambient temp at my seat wasn't 100+. I actually asked two EMTs who were walking around near the clubhouse if the stadium had climate-controlled first aid offices where people could be taken if the heat became a medical factor. I was told no; they have first aid stations on the mezzanine above both end zones (I guess if you can make it there). If you're playing games in that kind of oppressive heat, you've got to have a better plan than making someone nearing heatstroke climb the bleacher stairs and walk to the ends of the stadium.
GregParks wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2024 3:57 pm
Another reason it may be better to move the kickoff back to February, especially with so many teams playing outside in the south.
I don't think they'll move back, but we'll see. Winter does have the 'locked inside" north TV audience, but Fox has CBB pre-Maddness and ESPN too plus doesn't ESPN/ABC have WCBB? Plus Fox is adding a CBB mini-tourney. Plus there's still NBA and NHL games. So both nets may have more spots to fill Late March thru early June. We know Fox prefers that.
We all look at XFL2020 (me too) and they did well earlier but... its ratings dropped every week and the season ended week before March Madness. So they were heading into their toughest stretch.
The Fact UFL playoffs all did well in early mid June may mean nothing changes. Too bad the NE heatwave didn't hit a week early, that would have helped ratings for Championship.
AS FAR AS THE HEAT... Its a totally legit point. The UFL did NOT utilize its 3 domes late to avoid heat in 2024. That may change in 2025 with more time to schedule. Also with potentially up to 10 Friday night games, heat could be less an issue in 2025.
Better Dome usage, earlier season scheduling in South and Friday nights all could mute the Heat issues.
I'd be in favor of a last week of February or first week of March start. When you come up against the first 2 rounds of March madness, they can try a half bye week. Say week 3, 4 teams are on byes with only 2 games being played. That should make scheduling around the tournament easier, then the following week follows the same schedule. 10 games over 11 weeks with the championship memorial Day weekend. I could see the Sunday night before Memorial Day drawing a great crowd and big rating (maybe 2 million) as nearly everyone is off that Monday.
So here is the most successful spring league in the last three decades (granted not an impressive list to pick from but moreso the one that's making it, or at least way further than anyone else in that span), and we're talking about going back?
The timeslots are there, the audience is there. You don't need to reinvent the wheel to go from 10K to 15 and yet we need to do just that, all because of one issue that popped up in a market whose new stadium quite frankly doesn't seem to be much of an upgrade to its jurassic predecessor.
God it's like this board did become Reddit....................................................
MGB01 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2024 2:10 pm
So here is the most successful spring league in the last three decades (granted not an impressive list to pick from but moreso the one that's making it, or at least way further than anyone else in that span), and we're talking about going back?
The timeslots are there, the audience is there. You don't need to reinvent the wheel to go from 10K to 15 and yet we need to do just that, all because of one issue that popped up in a market whose new stadium quite frankly doesn't seem to be much of an upgrade to its jurassic predecessor.
God it's like this board did become Reddit....................................................
I mean, if you can't see there are positives (for players AND fans) of moving the schedule back to February, I don't know what to tell you.
The situation steve brought up with the heat was not a problem just in Birmingham; we saw many players late in the season at various venues suffer due to the heat. It's reasonable to think fans in those venues were suffering, too, and more importantly perhaps was keeping them from attending in the first place. When you have so many franchises in the south, being played outside into late May and early June, that's going to continue happening.
Obviously, as you mention, the main argument for keeping the schedule similar to what we saw this year is the television ratings. They were as good or better than expected - do you really want to mess with the audience you know you have by moving the schedule earlier? I do think it may depend on what timeslots you can get on Fox/ABC; if they're just not there in February, that's a compelling reason to keep the March start. You're still in a situation where you need to get as many eyeballs as you can on the product (we know there are a lot of people who still don't have awareness of the league, and hiding it on ESPN2 isn't going to help). So there's that. But players/agents overwhelmingly prefer the earlier start and that should be taken into account, too.
