Does the league actually want fans in Philadelphia??

[Sykotyk]

The biggest knock against the MLS stadium is location. It was built where land could be acquired. Chester is not a great area of Philly. They've struggled to get fans to come down to their games since it was built. Franklin Field might not be much better, but it is Philly and it is more of a 'known quantity' by Philadelphians. Even with $10 tickets, a Philly team is going to struggle to pull fans anywhere other than the south Philly sports complex where the three sports stadiums sit. If they can't play at the Linc, then they'll have issues with fan support no matter where they are. Be it Franklin Field, Subaru, or Villanova.

[4th&long]

The biggest knock against the MLS stadium is location. It was built where land could be acquired. Chester is not a great area of Philly. They've struggled to get fans to come down to their games since it was built. Franklin Field might not be much better, but it is Philly and it is more of a 'known quantity' by Philadelphians. Even with $10 tickets, a Philly team is going to struggle to pull fans anywhere other than the south Philly sports complex where the three sports stadiums sit. If they can't play at the Linc, then they'll have issues with fan support no matter where they are. Be it Franklin Field, Subaru, or Villanova.

Not sure where you are getting that. The Philly Union get great attendance. Subaru stadium is outside of the city of Philly. Chester itself is a smaller poorer city

Its a perfect stadium size for USFL.

[Sykotyk]

The biggest knock against the MLS stadium is location. It was built where land could be acquired. Chester is not a great area of Philly. They've struggled to get fans to come down to their games since it was built. Franklin Field might not be much better, but it is Philly and it is more of a 'known quantity' by Philadelphians. Even with $10 tickets, a Philly team is going to struggle to pull fans anywhere other than the south Philly sports complex where the three sports stadiums sit. If they can't play at the Linc, then they'll have issues with fan support no matter where they are. Be it Franklin Field, Subaru, or Villanova.

Not sure where you are getting that. The Philly Union get great attendance. Subaru stadium is outside of the city of Philly. Chester itself is a smaller poorer city

Its a perfect stadium size for USFL.

https://www.brotherlygame.com/2018/3/6/ ... 10-million

Philadelphia Union's last season before Covid was down to 17,1111 _announced_ attendance. It was far worse than the announced numbers. Their MLS Cup qualifying season last year only bumped their numbers but far more actually showed up later in the season when they made a playoff push with a good record.

Yes, I've been to Chester. Well aware it's not in the city of Philadelphia. It's also an area that most Philadelphians consider worse than even some of the worst parts of Philly (Kensington not withstanding).

[4th&long]

The biggest knock against the MLS stadium is location. It was built where land could be acquired. Chester is not a great area of Philly. They've struggled to get fans to come down to their games since it was built. Franklin Field might not be much better, but it is Philly and it is more of a 'known quantity' by Philadelphians. Even with $10 tickets, a Philly team is going to struggle to pull fans anywhere other than the south Philly sports complex where the three sports stadiums sit. If they can't play at the Linc, then they'll have issues with fan support no matter where they are. Be it Franklin Field, Subaru, or Villanova.

Not sure where you are getting that. The Philly Union get great attendance. Subaru stadium is outside of the city of Philly. Chester itself is a smaller poorer city

Its a perfect stadium size for USFL.

https://www.brotherlygame.com/2018/3/6/ ... 10-million

Philadelphia Union's last season before Covid was down to 17,1111 _announced_ attendance. It was far worse than the announced numbers. Their MLS Cup qualifying season last year only bumped their numbers but far more actually showed up later in the season when they made a playoff push with a good record.

Yes, I've been to Chester. Well aware it's not in the city of Philadelphia. It's also an area that most Philadelphians consider worse than even some of the worst parts of Philly (Kensington not withstanding).

17,111 is over 92% of capacity for the 18,500 seat stadium.

Stadium looks full here... (random game)
https://www.mlssoccer.com/schedule/scor ... 2023-06-04

I'm not saying its a great place, I'm saying its not in Philly and any league avoids Philly costs of doing business. Its also easy access from 95 in Philly and 295 in NJ. It sits on the NJ border.

[GDAWG]

The USFL is going to have trouble finding venues for Pittsburgh and New Jersey. New Orleans would be easy if they go to Tulane. Venue would not be an issue for the Gamblers, but I have serious doubts about if the team will ever play in Houston. Philly would be difficult, but not impossible like Pittsburgh would be.

[Sykotyk]

Not sure where you are getting that. The Philly Union get great attendance. Subaru stadium is outside of the city of Philly. Chester itself is a smaller poorer city

Its a perfect stadium size for USFL.

https://www.brotherlygame.com/2018/3/6/ ... 10-million

Philadelphia Union's last season before Covid was down to 17,1111 _announced_ attendance. It was far worse than the announced numbers. Their MLS Cup qualifying season last year only bumped their numbers but far more actually showed up later in the season when they made a playoff push with a good record.

Yes, I've been to Chester. Well aware it's not in the city of Philadelphia. It's also an area that most Philadelphians consider worse than even some of the worst parts of Philly (Kensington not withstanding).

17,111 is over 92% of capacity for the 18,500 seat stadium.

Stadium looks full here... (random game)
https://www.mlssoccer.com/schedule/scor ... 2023-06-04

I'm not saying its a great place, I'm saying its not in Philly and any league avoids Philly costs of doing business. Its also easy access from 95 in Philly and 295 in NJ. It sits on the NJ border.

As I've said, that's 'announced'. MLS has had a long history of overinflating crowds. Many Crew games at their old stadium barely had 5,000 actual fans and have announced crowds over 10-12k.

As for the game you linked (You linked to the schedule page), the highlights for that game show a pretty average crowd. When MLS teams have a full crowd, they're very sure to make sure they show it in highlights and photos. When they don't, it's very tight shots of a group of fans or the supporters section. Standing fans hide empty seats a lot better than seated fans.

As for why crowds ARE bigger this year... They're the defending eastern conference champs, have the third best record in the East so far this year, and have one of the better players in the league. The big question is how well they'd do if they were average (or worse).

[johnnyangryfuzzball]

The USFL is going to have trouble finding venues for Pittsburgh and New Jersey. New Orleans would be easy if they go to Tulane. Venue would not be an issue for the Gamblers, but I have serious doubts about if the team will ever play in Houston. Philly would be difficult, but not impossible like Pittsburgh would be.

There's Tulane, and in a pinch they could use Tad Gormley, though that would probably be something on the level of what we saw with Cashman Field and the Vipers. Of all the stadium situations, New Orleans's is the easiest to solve.

But to come back to the main question... does the USFL want fans in Philly, and do they really have a plan to get teams there, or in New Jersey or Houston? Right now, they're getting away with having the three biggest markets in the USFL not actually setting foot in their home cities. It's tremendously less expensive that way, but that shows up very glaringly in the empty stands.

But come next year, they have some serious decisions to make. They can try and shoehorn their way into those markets. Placing a "New Jersey" team in South Jersey (e.g. the Camden Athletic Fields that used to host baseball a few years ago) would look as ridiculous as placing a "New York" team in Buffalo... and Fox would quickly find that putting it in North Jersey would be as much of a challenge as Garcia and Johnson found out when they considered keeping the Guardians in the New York area. In Houston, of course, they'd be going head-to-head with the Roughnecks, who have a larger following and a much better on-field record. Would Fox Corp be THAT brazen? I doubt it. They're brazen but not stupid.

Or they can abandon the illusion and settle in homes that might be more inviting or a fit for their existing pattern. But they would then lose the dubious claim that they have teams in those top markets, the very thing that contributed to the old USFL losing their antitrust lawsuit.

Either way, the options are not particularly pleasant. Especially with NBC's contract allegedly running out after this year.

[4th&long]

The USFL is going to have trouble finding venues for Pittsburgh and New Jersey. New Orleans would be easy if they go to Tulane. Venue would not be an issue for the Gamblers, but I have serious doubts about if the team will ever play in Houston. Philly would be difficult, but not impossible like Pittsburgh would be.

There's Tulane, and in a pinch they could use Tad Gormley, though that would probably be something on the level of what we saw with Cashman Field and the Vipers. Of all the stadium situations, New Orleans's is the easiest to solve.

But to come back to the main question... does the USFL want fans in Philly, and do they really have a plan to get teams there, or in New Jersey or Houston? Right now, they're getting away with having the three biggest markets in the USFL not actually setting foot in their home cities. It's tremendously less expensive that way, but that shows up very glaringly in the empty stands.

But come next year, they have some serious decisions to make. They can try and shoehorn their way into those markets. Placing a "New Jersey" team in South Jersey (e.g. the Camden Athletic Fields that used to host baseball a few years ago) would look as ridiculous as placing a "New York" team in Buffalo... and Fox would quickly find that putting it in North Jersey would be as much of a challenge as Garcia and Johnson found out when they considered keeping the Guardians in the New York area. In Houston, of course, they'd be going head-to-head with the Roughnecks, who have a larger following and a much better on-field record. Would Fox Corp be THAT brazen? I doubt it. They're brazen but not stupid.

Or they can abandon the illusion and settle in homes that might be more inviting or a fit for their existing pattern. But they would then lose the dubious claim that they have teams in those top markets, the very thing that contributed to the old USFL losing their antitrust lawsuit.

Either way, the options are not particularly pleasant. Especially with NBC's contract allegedly running out after this year.

I see them in either Philly (likely Subaru) and/or in NNJ at RedBull, Rutgers and long shot unlikely at Metlife. Even if its just for 2 or 3 games each.
Houston is easier of course - play at TDECU Stadium, they are likely looking for dates.

Agree NOLA at Tulane. But they really need to be in 2/3 big cities beyond Michigan.

Its all about the TV viewers.

[Sykotyk]

The USFL is going to have trouble finding venues for Pittsburgh and New Jersey. New Orleans would be easy if they go to Tulane. Venue would not be an issue for the Gamblers, but I have serious doubts about if the team will ever play in Houston. Philly would be difficult, but not impossible like Pittsburgh would be.

There's Tulane, and in a pinch they could use Tad Gormley, though that would probably be something on the level of what we saw with Cashman Field and the Vipers. Of all the stadium situations, New Orleans's is the easiest to solve.

But to come back to the main question... does the USFL want fans in Philly, and do they really have a plan to get teams there, or in New Jersey or Houston? Right now, they're getting away with having the three biggest markets in the USFL not actually setting foot in their home cities. It's tremendously less expensive that way, but that shows up very glaringly in the empty stands.

But come next year, they have some serious decisions to make. They can try and shoehorn their way into those markets. Placing a "New Jersey" team in South Jersey (e.g. the Camden Athletic Fields that used to host baseball a few years ago) would look as ridiculous as placing a "New York" team in Buffalo... and Fox would quickly find that putting it in North Jersey would be as much of a challenge as Garcia and Johnson found out when they considered keeping the Guardians in the New York area. In Houston, of course, they'd be going head-to-head with the Roughnecks, who have a larger following and a much better on-field record. Would Fox Corp be THAT brazen? I doubt it. They're brazen but not stupid.

Or they can abandon the illusion and settle in homes that might be more inviting or a fit for their existing pattern. But they would then lose the dubious claim that they have teams in those top markets, the very thing that contributed to the old USFL losing their antitrust lawsuit.

Either way, the options are not particularly pleasant. Especially with NBC's contract allegedly running out after this year.

I see them in either Philly (likely Subaru) and/or in NNJ at RedBull, Rutgers and long shot unlikely at Metlife. Even if its just for 2 or 3 games each.
Houston is easier of course - play at TDECU Stadium, they are likely looking for dates.

Agree NOLA at Tulane. But they really need to be in 2/3 big cities beyond Michigan.

Its all about the TV viewers.

Red Bull Arena is basically a no. They did a few rugby games and that's been it for non-soccer events at the stadium. MetLife will rent themselves out to anyone willing to pay. And my guess is the cost is not going to be in the USFL budget. Rutgers does let HS games get played at their stadium regularly. So that might be an option. Other Northern Jersey options would be Princeton (definite no), Kean (way too small), or a HS stadium that will either be too small, or lack the lighting or press facilities to handle it (Secaucus, Hoboken, Craven Point, Elizabeth, etc).

https://www.northjersey.com/story/sport ... 382563007/

RBA has never hosted an American Football game. They will this fall, though.

https://www.newyorkredbulls.com/news/br ... ampton-rba

Whether they'll open it up to more American Football games in the future, who knows. But if XFL under Vince McMahon couldn't come to a price there's no way USFL is going to. Plus, if USFL wants to appear 'big league' NJ Generals need to play at the Meadowlands.

[johnnyangryfuzzball]

What about—and I know this is a longshot—Hinchliffe?

It hasn't hosted pro football in about 60 years but it recently got a nice renovation that got a substantial amount of publicity.