CFL Expansion

[DavedaHammer]

I think the CFL needs to stabilize itself before even considering expansion South of the Border, including adding a tenth Canadian team. CFL expansion to America is a long, long time away, perhaps not until it happens under the guy who replaces the guy who replaces Ambroise.

The CFL can expand on the fly as the Montreal team works out it ownership situation. The Speigel Estate hasn't thrown the keys on the table as 3 DownNation suggests. The lawyers that are in care of the Estate have to make some free agent signings to replace Harris and Lewis.

People are panicking since the other teams are disclosing their signings prior to the official Free Agent period and the Alouettes have not YET. Danny Macchochia has his hands tied for now, but he will sign a QB in either Evans or Fajardo, both who are better than the aging, immobile Harris.

CFL expansion into the US occurs when either the XFL or USFL fold within the next few years. Ambrosie will still be commish to oversee that execution. Who's to say that the tenth team should be Canadian. A couple of good candidates for ONE US expansion might be Chicago, Detroit, Minnesota(Collegville), Buffalo or Rochester. The CFL needs just ONE for expansion to succeed.

[laxtreme56]

I think we should see who, if anyone, purchases the Al's and for what cost. If the league gives the team away for $1 then they should never collect expansion fees again. Also, if Toronto can't increase their attendance by 20% after a Grey Cup victory then their is no hope left in that market.

[GDAWG]

I think the CFL needs to stabilize itself before even considering expansion South of the Border, including adding a tenth Canadian team. CFL expansion to America is a long, long time away, perhaps not until it happens under the guy who replaces the guy who replaces Ambroise.

The CFL can expand on the fly as the Montreal team works out it ownership situation. The Speigel Estate hasn't thrown the keys on the table as 3 DownNation suggests. The lawyers that are in care of the Estate have to make some free agent signings to replace Harris and Lewis.

People are panicking since the other teams are disclosing their signings prior to the official Free Agent period and the Alouettes have not YET. Danny Macchochia has his hands tied for now, but he will sign a QB in either Evans or Fajardo, both who are better than the aging, immobile Harris.

CFL expansion into the US occurs when either the XFL or USFL fold within the next few years. Ambrosie will still be commish to oversee that execution. Who's to say that the tenth team should be Canadian. A couple of good candidates for ONE US expansion might be Chicago, Detroit, Minnesota(Collegville), Buffalo or Rochester. The CFL needs just ONE for expansion to succeed.

The CFL doesn't need to go into NFL markets like Chicago, Detroit, Minnesota as they would get lost in the shuffle among the cavalcade of pro sports that litter those three areas. If they want to make an impact in the States: Rochester, Albany, Hartford, Providence, maybe Boise, somewhere in the Dakotas. Somewhere where they can be "the only game in town" (minor league sports not included). Also, Providence is considered a part of Greater Boston, so you can attract the Boston market without getting lost in the shuffle in actual Boston.

However, any and all CFL American based teams (if they do it again) should not be South of the Mason Dixon Line, which borders Pennsylvania and Maryland and it should not be anywhere South of Oregon, Idaho and Wyoming nor anywhere South of the Ohio River.

[laxtreme56]

The CFL can expand on the fly as the Montreal team works out it ownership situation. The Speigel Estate hasn't thrown the keys on the table as 3 DownNation suggests. The lawyers that are in care of the Estate have to make some free agent signings to replace Harris and Lewis.

People are panicking since the other teams are disclosing their signings prior to the official Free Agent period and the Alouettes have not YET. Danny Macchochia has his hands tied for now, but he will sign a QB in either Evans or Fajardo, both who are better than the aging, immobile Harris.

CFL expansion into the US occurs when either the XFL or USFL fold within the next few years. Ambrosie will still be commish to oversee that execution. Who's to say that the tenth team should be Canadian. A couple of good candidates for ONE US expansion might be Chicago, Detroit, Minnesota(Collegville), Buffalo or Rochester. The CFL needs just ONE for expansion to succeed.

The CFL doesn't need to go into NFL markets like Chicago, Detroit, Minnesota as they would get lost in the shuffle among the cavalcade of pro sports that litter those three areas. If they want to make an impact in the States: Rochester, Albany, Hartford, Providence, maybe Boise, somewhere in the Dakotas. Somewhere where they can be "the only game in town" (minor league sports not included). Also, Providence is considered a part of Greater Boston, so you can attract the Boston market without getting lost in the shuffle in actual Boston.

However, any and all CFL American based teams (if they do it again) should not be South of the Mason Dixon Line, which borders Pennsylvania and Maryland and it should not be anywhere South of Oregon, Idaho and Wyoming nor anywhere South of the Ohio River.

The only issues here, those markets won't move the needle in terms of television revenue. No US network is going to shell out big bucks to televise Rochester Vs. Fargo, ND. It won't help TSN ratings much either, which have fallen 40% in the past decade. So now they'll be 12 teams, instead of 9, fighting over the same pie.

[Tank55]

Going to the Dakotas is a terrible suggestion if you ever want to generate serious TV revenue. If you want to be a minor league, you don't have to come to the US to do it. If they ended their season on Labor Day, they'd do just fine in the major US northern US cities.

[GDAWG]

The CFL doesn't need to go into NFL markets like Chicago, Detroit, Minnesota as they would get lost in the shuffle among the cavalcade of pro sports that litter those three areas. If they want to make an impact in the States: Rochester, Albany, Hartford, Providence, maybe Boise, somewhere in the Dakotas. Somewhere where they can be "the only game in town" (minor league sports not included). Also, Providence is considered a part of Greater Boston, so you can attract the Boston market without getting lost in the shuffle in actual Boston.

However, any and all CFL American based teams (if they do it again) should not be South of the Mason Dixon Line, which borders Pennsylvania and Maryland and it should not be anywhere South of Oregon, Idaho and Wyoming nor anywhere South of the Ohio River.

The only issues here, those markets won't move the needle in terms of television revenue. No US network is going to shell out big bucks to televise Rochester Vs. Fargo, ND. It won't help TSN ratings much either, which have fallen 40% in the past decade. So now they'll be 12 teams, instead of 9, fighting over the same pie.

I think Chicago and Minnesota are wrong locations for the CFL, especially Chicago. Chicago has tried "non-NFL football" and every time it has failed: WFL, USFL, XFL 1.0.....all have failed miserably. So why would one think the CFL would work in Chicago when every other league has failed?

With Detroit it would have to be the suburbs as Ford Field won't fit a CFL Stadium, and not sure that the CFL fans want CFL games played on the gray field of Eastern Michigan, so they would have to get their own field to cover the gray field and the track and that might work if that happens. Other than that, there would be nowhere to play, unless they Canadianize the Detroit team as "Windsor." With Minnesota, there's no stadium there that would fit a CFL field and the ones that can are likely too small for the CFL.

If you want major cities in the North, Buffalo could work if you play at the University of Buffalo. Boston has no stadiums to accommodate a CFL field. Philadelphia is the only other major Northern City I can think of that could host a CFL field if you put a CFL field at the University of Pennsylvania. Whether or not Philly embraces a CFL team is another question seeing as how well the Eagles are playing. New York could work for University of Columbia, but they might not embrace a CFL team.

[GDAWG]

Going to the Dakotas is a terrible suggestion if you ever want to generate serious TV revenue. If you want to be a minor league, you don't have to come to the US to do it. If they ended their season on Labor Day, they'd do just fine in the major US northern US cities.

The only ones I can see fitting are Philly, Detroit, NYC and Buffalo, as mentioned above in my last post. Other than that, I can't see anywhere else. Chicago's history of non-NFL football has been a massive failure.

Also, CFL needs to make sure that going to major cities in the US doesn't jeopardize their current relationship with the NFL.

[DavedaHammer]

The CFL doesn't need to go into NFL markets like Chicago, Detroit, Minnesota as they would get lost in the shuffle among the cavalcade of pro sports that litter those three areas. If they want to make an impact in the States: Rochester, Albany, Hartford, Providence, maybe Boise, somewhere in the Dakotas. Somewhere where they can be "the only game in town" (minor league sports not included). Also, Providence is considered a part of Greater Boston, so you can attract the Boston market without getting lost in the shuffle in actual Boston.

However, any and all CFL American based teams (if they do it again) should not be South of the Mason Dixon Line, which borders Pennsylvania and Maryland and it should not be anywhere South of Oregon, Idaho and Wyoming nor anywhere South of the Ohio River.

The only issues here, those markets won't move the needle in terms of television revenue. No US network is going to shell out big bucks to televise Rochester Vs. Fargo, ND. It won't help TSN ratings much either, which have fallen 40% in the past decade. So now they'll be 12 teams, instead of 9, fighting over the same pie.

I think Chicago and Minnesota are wrong locations for the CFL, especially Chicago. Chicago has tried "non-NFL football" and every time it has failed: WFL, USFL, XFL 1.0.....all have failed miserably. So why would one think the CFL would work in Chicago when every other league has failed?

With Detroit it would have to be the suburbs as Ford Field won't fit a CFL Stadium, and not sure that the CFL fans want CFL games played on the gray field of Eastern Michigan, so they would have to get their own field to cover the gray field and the track and that might work if that happens. Other than that, there would be nowhere to play, unless they Canadianize the Detroit team as "Windsor." With Minnesota, there's no stadium there that would fit a CFL field and the ones that can are likely too small for the CFL.

If you want major cities in the North, Buffalo could work if you play at the University of Buffalo. Boston has no stadiums to accommodate a CFL field. Philadelphia is the only other major Northern City I can think of that could host a CFL field if you put a CFL field at the University of Pennsylvania. Whether or not Philly embraces a CFL team is another question seeing as how well the Eagles are playing. New York could work for University of Columbia, but they might not embrace a CFL team.

The CFL is a summer time league. Chicago Football Fans won't have to freeze in cold weather games in mid November and December. Chicago is a major airport hub, lots of Canadians would make a trip to Chi-Town. Saskatchewan Rough Rider Fans can trek to Wolfville, NS, a shorter trip to Chicago is easier in flight time.

A Detroit team can play out of Eastern Michigan University. Give the team a region name as a Michigan team. Call the team the "Michigan Grays" as a homage to the old Negro League team, since Detroit has a high percentage of Afro-Americans living in the area, while keeping the playing surface intact.

Boston can work if you play at Harvard Stadium. It's playing area can fit a CFL field.

Philadelphia will embrace the CFL since the Eagles ticket prices will soar because of it's recent success. It will box out the a family of four for a family outing.

New York would embrace the CFL because it would be the true football team residing in the City, as both NFL teams play out of New Jersey. A lot of Canadian ex-pats live in New York, gives them a chance for a glimpse of Home without leaving their New York home.

One needs to be proactive instead of overreacting to overcome a few speedbumps

[johnnyangryfuzzball]

One needs to be proactive instead of overreacting to overcome a few speedbumps

Dave, those are more than "a few speedbumps;" those are fundamental flaws that make your plan impossible.

First of all, your rosy predictions of ticket sales are not borne out in reality. Particularly in Chicago, there were mandates to have teams in Chicago for just about every league up through XFL1.0. But it didn't matter the season, be it summer (the WFL), fall (the Cardinals, the Chicago Maroons college squad), spring (the Blitz) or winter (the Enforcers), Chicagoans stayed home every time, and they didn't watch their teams on TV.

Plus, you're pushing for a team in New York City when there are no stadiums capable of hosting the game anywhere in the city, and the billion dollar price tag that would likely come with any attempt to build one would likely never pay itself off, let alone get past the notorious NIMBYs that dominate NYC, including the Irish mob (Jimmy Dolan was able to kill the New York Jets' attempt to build a stadium in the city) and the Five Families.

Harvard? Do you really think they're going to share their field with a pro team during the season AND constantly shift it back and forth between CFL and NFL code? Winnipeg couldn't even safely switch from CFL to NFL for ONE GAME. It's a non-starter. Brian Woods tried Boston with the FXFL and had the league's worst attendance there. You'd run into the same issues with Fenway (too short for the CFL anyway) or Alumni Stadium at Boston College... and Nickerson is controlled by Boston University, which is literally trying to get football banned, so that's out of the question too. That also rules out Franklin Field in Philadelphia.

Plus, I don't really see how much Canadians would be too keen on having big city American teams show up in a league that their own government has used threat of legislation to protect.

The only place I could see it remotely feasible is Detroit. Real estate is cheaper in Michigan, it's close by to the Canadian border, and it doesn't have an MLS squad so less direct competition.

[DavedaHammer]

One needs to be proactive instead of overreacting to overcome a few speedbumps

Dave, those are more than "a few speedbumps;" those are fundamental flaws that make your plan impossible.

First of all, your rosy predictions of ticket sales are not borne out in reality. Particularly in Chicago, there were mandates to have teams in Chicago for just about every league up through XFL1.0. But it didn't matter the season, be it summer (the WFL), fall (the Cardinals, the Chicago Maroons college squad), spring (the Blitz) or winter (the Enforcers), Chicagoans stayed home every time, and they didn't watch their teams on TV.

Plus, you're pushing for a team in New York City when there are no stadiums capable of hosting the game anywhere in the city, and the billion dollar price tag that would likely come with any attempt to build one would likely never pay itself off, let alone get past the notorious NIMBYs that dominate NYC, including the Irish mob (Jimmy Dolan was able to kill the New York Jets' attempt to build a stadium in the city) and the Five Families.

Harvard? Do you really think they're going to share their field with a pro team during the season AND constantly shift it back and forth between CFL and NFL code? Winnipeg couldn't even safely switch from CFL to NFL for ONE GAME. It's a non-starter. Brian Woods tried Boston with the FXFL and had the league's worst attendance there. You'd run into the same issues with Fenway (too short for the CFL anyway) or Alumni Stadium at Boston College... and Nickerson is controlled by Boston University, which is literally trying to get football banned, so that's out of the question too. That also rules out Franklin Field in Philadelphia.

Plus, I don't really see how much Canadians would be too keen on having big city American teams show up in a league that their own government has used threat of legislation to protect.

The only place I could see it remotely feasible is Detroit. Real estate is cheaper in Michigan, it's close by to the Canadian border, and it doesn't have an MLS squad so less direct competition.

Chicago is a burgeoning Football market that the XFL, USFL are ignoring, while the Bears are abandoning the City for Arlington heights. It's ripe for the CFL to plant it's flag there for US expansion. Chicago worked in the NHL Original Six era. Going to Chicago gets the CFL a US TV deal despite playing against Canadian teams that American never heard of. Those defunct leagues that you listed all played 4 down football. The CFL offers an alternative brand with 3 down and Canadian rules that some US Football fans will enjoy. The Bears have sucked for so long, their fans deserved better.

You need to stop watching Mobster movies and find a contemporary analogy. Today's mobsters have lost their grip on city vices by competition from Asians, Russians and Bikers. Dolan controls Madison Square Garden, he'd have no say on whether the Jets can't play in the City of New York. Besides he didn't stop NYCFC from building their stadium as the soccer team have announced plans to build a new venue by 2027. The CFL needs that New York market along with Chicago to get that US TV deal. Wein Stadium at Columbia University will fit the bill for CFL expansion. The schools needs to upgrade their facilities, amenities to accommodate a pro team and increased attendance figures. The same goes for University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia. It prided itself hosting the Eagles for decades before it moved to Veterans Stadium in the 70's, so why not a CFL team

Harvard already has it's stadium to fit a CFL field because it was one of the original sites to embrace CFL field regulations since it is build with concrete in the '20's. Brian Woods is a grifter. The dude still owes a huge hotel bill
in Indianapolis.

It's the NFL's fault in the Winnipeg exhibition game by not playing their game on a CFL field. The missed opportunity is on them. It would've been interesting to see a NFL game with 4 downs being played on a longer, wider CFL field.

Having a US/Canadian rivalry would generate huge interest in the CFL. Remember the '94 Grey Cup, BC Place was packed, Canadians rallied behind BC Lions against the bad 'Mericans(no pun intended, I love Americans).

Why would the Trudeau Gov't want to protect the CFL, when it wouldn't give the league a loan/grant to play after the Pandemic. The CFL could've played the 2020 season when Bob Young was going to front the money to the CFL, both a number of owners didn't want to be beholden to Young's thoughtfulness.

Detroit would be a money making market. It has a huge regional span reaching from London, Chatham, Sarnia to Toledo. It could easily fill the Eastern Michigan University stadium on a regular basis. Again, that school needs to upgrade it facilities, add more seating capacity. The USFL came close to renting out the venue until the NFL coaxed the Ford Family to lease Ford Field to the USFL/FOX network