Fox investing $150 million over 3 years?

[4th&long]

Big if true. Even at $50 million a year, that's a pretty healthy chunk of change, especially if Woods/Fox have other financial partners interested in joining. Playing in a hub city like Birmingham will cut down on some of the travel/stadium rental/etc. costs so that money could be spent elsewhere.

You'll have to pardon me if I'm a little skeptical, however. It seems like an odd bit to be dropped into this news article as if it's common knowledge - I don't believe that number has been reported anywhere else and hasn't been made public by Woods/Fox/USFL. Usually they'd at least include "sources have told us" on the number or something like that.

GP,

USFL news is heating up. FOX appears to be all in. They OWN it. That's the key. I said wayyyy back, no Network is going to FUND a new league via massive TV contracts so someone else can make money. Aint happening. Hence why the XFL does not have a contract and why Fox owned USFL does. Some people didn't agree then, now they may think diff.

I certainly understand that. The question was always just HOW MUCH Fox was willing to put into the deal. They seemed to be fine with TSL being relatively cheap programming for them without a lot of money being invested in it (granted, they didn't OWN it at the time, but still, they could've poured more money in via a TV deal. Yes, a TV deal makes others money but the idea is that it makes the network money, too). There was little indication their ownership stake in the USFL would be any different other than acquiring cheap programming. I'm not yet sure the hundreds of millions of dollars they're allegedly planning to invest into the league only to draw a few hundred thousand or a million viewers, instead of drawing half that for hundreds of millions less, makes a lot of sense to me. But it ain't my money.

TOO MUCH MONEY in FB - PERIOD. Live sports is the ONLY sure thing get eyeballs on your stream or TV. By owning or controlling the USFL they control the content. They need that. Fox lost out on NHL, has no NBA. They have NFL in fall which is expensive as hell. and some CFB but they need more and spring.

And that's why this is all so interesting to me, because up 'til this point, secondary sports leagues have struggled to get any kind of substantial TV contracts while industry leaders keep seeing their deals increase exponentially. This isn't a TV contract per se, but as you mentioned, FOX bought the company so they could have football programming, which is tantamount to a TV contract. But all things being equal, what made the USFL more attractive than the XFL when it comes to FOX dipping their toe into this water again? Either the amount of $$ they're putting into USFL is still less than what the XFL was looking for (which, if true, good luck XFL), or it's all about that ownership stake.

Not trying to beat on anyone here but here's my 98 cents...

Well I looked at it this way: AAF proved that even tiny cable NFLN - not a goto channel in the spring - averaged 350K plus over 15 games, CBS 3.2mm over 1 game and TNT 570k over 3 games.

The XFL averaged over 2.3 million with FOX/ABC and over 1.2mm on cable (ESPN/ESPN2 and FS1) over about 10 games broadcast and 10 games cable.

TSL with no promo, no cities, no marketing, averaged 409k on FOX.

Based on that FOX sees an opportunity. In the grand scheme $150mm over 3 years is pocket change - some guy paid $200mm to go to space for 3 days on SpaceX drew dragon. What did Bezo Blue Origin charge the 2 customers to fly up with "Kirk" William Shatner? My point is its 2021, $150mm isn't what it was and its made all the time at least since 2016.

Why USFL vs XFL? - simple - XFL isn't playing USFL/TSL was. I said all along XFL NEEDED to play in 2021 and drop some of their own coin on a hybrid bubble 4 team 6 week season. They ARE being cheap and uncommitted.
I also said the Nets were NOT going to sign a lucrative TV contract with a new league (XFL3.0) with no history under D/R/Rk. Nor were they going to make THEM rich using Disney's and/or FOX's money. It WASN'T happening.

So the day after XFL bailed on 2021 on 10/2/20 Fox signed with TSL. Then again in 2021. They learned and gained experience and are ready for next step. It is NOT the same as making someone else rich off your money via tv contract.

To me it was clear to me and while I'm not always on the mark, I tend to be more so than not. It was common business sense to me what was happening and now its panning out.

If USFL can keep the FB cost low, they can spend more on Promotion-Marketing etc... Fox owns 2 sports channels and Outkick website, plus has interest in FOXBet that all can leverage and benefit from USFL.

Baseball is dying (M Perry says similar). MLS is close to 30 teams and still cant get more than 200-300k avg tv audience on cable after 25 years. NBA pissed off the fan base and NHL is more niche.

People LOVE FB. Goodell is a jackass and ruining the NFL and people still love it! USFL can kick ass.

Birmingham is a poor choice for TV ratings but a great FB town and perfect for 2022. The city is getting stiff over this opportunity and I'll bet if they get to keep a team there long-term its a done deal.

[herns]

Do you think that fox is putting in that money because they see this as being something a lot bigger.

I'd have to imagine, because that's a lot of lettuce. It's really the only explanation that makes sense. But that's an AWFUL lot of money to throw at a big risk, especially when they're starting so small in terms of ratings expectations, doing a hub city, etc. First impressions are important and even with Fox's money, if people see the USFL starting small, it may be harder for them to gain acceptance as something more than that.

I think a way to overcome the starting small image is if they get known coaches and players. For expample TSL alumni Ryan mallett and deandre Francois are fairly known names that could help, you Siri have chad Kelly who I believe is probably the biggest name an alt league has attracted(not counting manziel) and can help promote guys like Bryan Scott who has said he’s interested or quinton flowers

[herns]

GP,

USFL news is heating up. FOX appears to be all in. They OWN it. That's the key. I said wayyyy back, no Network is going to FUND a new league via massive TV contracts so someone else can make money. Aint happening. Hence why the XFL does not have a contract and why Fox owned USFL does. Some people didn't agree then, now they may think diff.

I certainly understand that. The question was always just HOW MUCH Fox was willing to put into the deal. They seemed to be fine with TSL being relatively cheap programming for them without a lot of money being invested in it (granted, they didn't OWN it at the time, but still, they could've poured more money in via a TV deal. Yes, a TV deal makes others money but the idea is that it makes the network money, too). There was little indication their ownership stake in the USFL would be any different other than acquiring cheap programming. I'm not yet sure the hundreds of millions of dollars they're allegedly planning to invest into the league only to draw a few hundred thousand or a million viewers, instead of drawing half that for hundreds of millions less, makes a lot of sense to me. But it ain't my money.

TOO MUCH MONEY in FB - PERIOD. Live sports is the ONLY sure thing get eyeballs on your stream or TV. By owning or controlling the USFL they control the content. They need that. Fox lost out on NHL, has no NBA. They have NFL in fall which is expensive as hell. and some CFB but they need more and spring.

And that's why this is all so interesting to me, because up 'til this point, secondary sports leagues have struggled to get any kind of substantial TV contracts while industry leaders keep seeing their deals increase exponentially. This isn't a TV contract per se, but as you mentioned, FOX bought the company so they could have football programming, which is tantamount to a TV contract. But all things being equal, what made the USFL more attractive than the XFL when it comes to FOX dipping their toe into this water again? Either the amount of $$ they're putting into USFL is still less than what the XFL was looking for (which, if true, good luck XFL), or it's all about that ownership stake.

Not trying to beat on anyone here but here's my 98 cents...

Well I looked at it this way: AAF proved that even tiny cable NFLN - not a goto channel in the spring - averaged 350K plus over 15 games, CBS 3.2mm over 1 game and TNT 570k over 3 games.

The XFL averaged over 2.3 million with FOX/ABC and over 1.2mm on cable (ESPN/ESPN2 and FS1) over about 10 games broadcast and 10 games cable.

TSL with no promo, no cities, no marketing, averaged 409k on FOX.

Based on that FOX sees an opportunity. In the grand scheme $150mm over 3 years is pocket change - some guy paid $200mm to go to space for 3 days on SpaceX drew dragon. What did Bezo Blue Origin charge the 2 customers to fly up with "Kirk" William Shatner? My point is its 2021, $150mm isn't what it was and its made all the time at least since 2016.

Why USFL vs XFL? - simple - XFL isn't playing USFL/TSL was. I said all along XFL NEEDED to play in 2021 and drop some of their own coin on a hybrid bubble 4 team 6 week season. They ARE being cheap and uncommitted.
I also said the Nets were NOT going to sign a lucrative TV contract with a new league (XFL3.0) with no history under D/R/Rk. Nor were they going to make THEM rich using Disney's and/or FOX's money. It WASN'T happening.

So the day after XFL bailed on 2021 on 10/2/20 Fox signed with TSL. Then again in 2021. They learned and gained experience and are ready for next step. It is NOT the same as making someone else rich off your money via tv contract.

To me it was clear to me and while I'm not always on the mark, I tend to be more so than not. It was common business sense to me what was happening and now its panning out.

If USFL can keep the FB cost low, they can spend more on Promotion-Marketing etc... Fox owns 2 sports channels and Outkick website, plus has interest in FOXBet that all can leverage and benefit from USFL.

Baseball is dying (M Perry says similar). MLS is close to 30 teams and still cant get more than 200-300k avg tv audience on cable after 25 years. NBA pissed off the fan base and NHL is more niche.

People LOVE FB. Goodell is a jackass and ruining the NFL and people still love it! USFL can kick ass.

Birmingham is a poor choice for TV ratings but a great FB town and perfect for 2022. The city is getting stiff over this opportunity and I'll bet if they get to keep a team there long-term its a done deal.

I’ve gotta say I mostly agree but as a baseball fan this year was the first time I’ve seen the mlb actually take steps to attract a bigger audience. I get Birmingham not being the giant draw tv market wise but isn’t one of the biggest things with new league is that the city it’s in supports it and it looks like it’s fun to be at, creating a great atmosphere that comes across on TV

[4th&long]

Do you think that fox is putting in that money because they see this as being something a lot bigger.

I'd have to imagine, because that's a lot of lettuce. It's really the only explanation that makes sense. But that's an AWFUL lot of money to throw at a big risk, especially when they're starting so small in terms of ratings expectations, doing a hub city, etc. First impressions are important and even with Fox's money, if people see the USFL starting small, it may be harder for them to gain acceptance as something more than that.

I think a way to overcome the starting small image is if they get known coaches and players. For expample TSL alumni Ryan mallett and deandre Francois are fairly known names that could help, you Siri have chad Kelly who I believe is probably the biggest name an alt league has attracted(not counting manziel) and can help promote guys like Bryan Scott who has said he’s interested or quinton flowers

Is it a Big Risk? FB is a winner. $50mm a year? NFL is $2billion a year per for FOX

Known coaches will help but PROMOTION & MARKETING & GAMBLING is what the league needs. XFL had little and Averaged 1.9mm viewers over 20 games between cable and Broadcast. Did they have known big name coaches?

TSL had Kevin Gilbride and Jerry Glanville. Expect them and Hal Mumme possibly June Jones and others.

This will be a low cost highly promoted league to start IMO.

[4th&long]

I certainly understand that. The question was always just HOW MUCH Fox was willing to put into the deal. They seemed to be fine with TSL being relatively cheap programming for them without a lot of money being invested in it (granted, they didn't OWN it at the time, but still, they could've poured more money in via a TV deal. Yes, a TV deal makes others money but the idea is that it makes the network money, too). There was little indication their ownership stake in the USFL would be any different other than acquiring cheap programming. I'm not yet sure the hundreds of millions of dollars they're allegedly planning to invest into the league only to draw a few hundred thousand or a million viewers, instead of drawing half that for hundreds of millions less, makes a lot of sense to me. But it ain't my money.




And that's why this is all so interesting to me, because up 'til this point, secondary sports leagues have struggled to get any kind of substantial TV contracts while industry leaders keep seeing their deals increase exponentially. This isn't a TV contract per se, but as you mentioned, FOX bought the company so they could have football programming, which is tantamount to a TV contract. But all things being equal, what made the USFL more attractive than the XFL when it comes to FOX dipping their toe into this water again? Either the amount of $$ they're putting into USFL is still less than what the XFL was looking for (which, if true, good luck XFL), or it's all about that ownership stake.

Not trying to beat on anyone here but here's my 98 cents...

Well I looked at it this way: AAF proved that even tiny cable NFLN - not a goto channel in the spring - averaged 350K plus over 15 games, CBS 3.2mm over 1 game and TNT 570k over 3 games.

The XFL averaged over 2.3 million with FOX/ABC and over 1.2mm on cable (ESPN/ESPN2 and FS1) over about 10 games broadcast and 10 games cable.

TSL with no promo, no cities, no marketing, averaged 409k on FOX.

Based on that FOX sees an opportunity. In the grand scheme $150mm over 3 years is pocket change - some guy paid $200mm to go to space for 3 days on SpaceX drew dragon. What did Bezo Blue Origin charge the 2 customers to fly up with "Kirk" William Shatner? My point is its 2021, $150mm isn't what it was and its made all the time at least since 2016.

Why USFL vs XFL? - simple - XFL isn't playing USFL/TSL was. I said all along XFL NEEDED to play in 2021 and drop some of their own coin on a hybrid bubble 4 team 6 week season. They ARE being cheap and uncommitted.
I also said the Nets were NOT going to sign a lucrative TV contract with a new league (XFL3.0) with no history under D/R/Rk. Nor were they going to make THEM rich using Disney's and/or FOX's money. It WASN'T happening.

So the day after XFL bailed on 2021 on 10/2/20 Fox signed with TSL. Then again in 2021. They learned and gained experience and are ready for next step. It is NOT the same as making someone else rich off your money via tv contract.

To me it was clear to me and while I'm not always on the mark, I tend to be more so than not. It was common business sense to me what was happening and now its panning out.

If USFL can keep the FB cost low, they can spend more on Promotion-Marketing etc... Fox owns 2 sports channels and Outkick website, plus has interest in FOXBet that all can leverage and benefit from USFL.

Baseball is dying (M Perry says similar). MLS is close to 30 teams and still cant get more than 200-300k avg tv audience on cable after 25 years. NBA pissed off the fan base and NHL is more niche.

People LOVE FB. Goodell is a jackass and ruining the NFL and people still love it! USFL can kick ass.

Birmingham is a poor choice for TV ratings but a great FB town and perfect for 2022. The city is getting stiff over this opportunity and I'll bet if they get to keep a team there long-term its a done deal.

I’ve gotta say I mostly agree but as a baseball fan this year was the first time I’ve seen the mlb actually take steps to attract a bigger audience. I get Birmingham not being the giant draw tv market wise but isn’t one of the biggest things with new league is that the city it’s in supports it and it looks like it’s fun to be at, creating a great atmosphere that comes across on TV

The XFL rightly targeted big TV markets to get the biggest TV audience. Their teams cover 22%+ of the Nielsen national TV audience, AAF only had 9+%. Who had better TV rating? XFL of course.

USFL will likely fall much more closely to XFL markets - I'd expect in the 17-20% Nielsen national TV audience range.

[herns]

I'd have to imagine, because that's a lot of lettuce. It's really the only explanation that makes sense. But that's an AWFUL lot of money to throw at a big risk, especially when they're starting so small in terms of ratings expectations, doing a hub city, etc. First impressions are important and even with Fox's money, if people see the USFL starting small, it may be harder for them to gain acceptance as something more than that.

I think a way to overcome the starting small image is if they get known coaches and players. For expample TSL alumni Ryan mallett and deandre Francois are fairly known names that could help, you Siri have chad Kelly who I believe is probably the biggest name an alt league has attracted(not counting manziel) and can help promote guys like Bryan Scott who has said he’s interested or quinton flowers

Is it a Big Risk? FB is a winner. $50mm a year? NFL is $2billion a year per for FOX

Known coaches will help but PROMOTION & MARKETING & GAMBLING is what the league needs. XFL had little and Averaged 1.9mm viewers over 20 games between cable and Broadcast. Did they have known big name coaches?

TSL had Kevin Gilbride and Jerry Glanville. Expect them and Hal Mumme possibly June Jones and others.

This will be a low cost highly promoted league to start IMO.

There was reports they also wanted wade Philips, and spurrier, Rick Neuheisel also said he wants to coach