Theoretical Discussion: Possible expansion cities and mascots

[johnnyangryfuzzball]

But why would the UFL go into such a small TV market (even if you added Buffalo)?  That's the question. 

If you had actually read the whole post, you would know: open stadium, passionate fan base, no major league competition in the spring, and Russ Brandon is from the area. (No different than when Oliver Luck brought the Roughnecks to Houston.) Plus, last I recall, you put Buffalo and Rochester together, the combined market is somewhere in the top 30. Hence how the Bills have survived. And if the Bills can survive in Western New York, a UFL team could easily do so with a fraction of the support.

Also all the NY regulations w/o NYC?  I just don't see it.   Chicago perhaps - if there's a stadium in the burbs, but Illinois is another gov reg intense state,

The regulations are negotiable. The Albany Firebirds did it with arena football earlier this year and got their workman's comp rate cut by more than half. New York is a notorious pay-to-play state: you put a few thousand in the governor's campaign fund, and voila! You get your favors.

They need to get into NY/NJ or Philly via the burbs.  

And how are they supposed to do that?

No alternative football league has called Philadelphia home since 1984. Since then, JFK Stadium has been torn down. There are no stadiums in the suburbs except for the Union's stadium, which is pretty much fully booked with the Union and its reserve squad. Other than that, you have to travel 70 miles up to the Lehigh Valley, where Goodman Stadium has no lights. Plus the market is ridiculously crowded with other sporting options. I do not get why you're obsessed with Philadelphia when no one else sees it as viable.

As for New York/New Jersey... the Sentinels of the previous UFL played at Hofstra and didn't do well there. You have a couple of options in New Jersey that I've mentioned before but Johnson and Garcia tried to find a home for the Guardians that fit better than cavernous MetLife Stadium and weren't able to do so.

The UFL has the smallest total TV Markets of any league year sans 2019 AAF, and half of 2020 XFL.

Even if true—it's not because the 2022 and 2023 USFL both had far smaller footprints—the ratings are much better, too. And if the 2022 USFL can pull off the scam of calling teams "New Jersey" and "Philadelphia" without having ever played a single game anywhere near there, why couldn't Fox do the same with a team that, unlike the New York Giants and New York Jets, actually plays in New York State? If TV eyeballs are what's important, roll with it.

[4th&long]

But why would the UFL go into such a small TV market (even if you added Buffalo)?  That's the question. 

If you had actually read the whole post, you would know: open stadium, passionate fan base, no major league competition in the spring, and Russ Brandon is from the area. (No different than when Oliver Luck brought the Roughnecks to Houston.) Plus, last I recall, you put Buffalo and Rochester together, the combined market is somewhere in the top 30. Hence how the Bills have survived. And if the Bills can survive in Western New York, a UFL team could easily do so with a fraction of the support.

Also all the NY regulations w/o NYC?  I just don't see it.   Chicago perhaps - if there's a stadium in the burbs, but Illinois is another gov reg intense state,

The regulations are negotiable. The Albany Firebirds did it with arena football earlier this year and got their workman's comp rate cut by more than half. New York is a notorious pay-to-play state: you put a few thousand in the governor's campaign fund, and voila! You get your favors.

They need to get into NY/NJ or Philly via the burbs.  

And how are they supposed to do that?

No alternative football league has called Philadelphia home since 1984. Since then, JFK Stadium has been torn down. There are no stadiums in the suburbs except for the Union's stadium, which is pretty much fully booked with the Union and its reserve squad. Other than that, you have to travel 70 miles up to the Lehigh Valley, where Goodman Stadium has no lights. Plus the market is ridiculously crowded with other sporting options. I do not get why you're obsessed with Philadelphia when no one else sees it as viable.

As for New York/New Jersey... the Sentinels of the previous UFL played at Hofstra and didn't do well there. You have a couple of options in New Jersey that I've mentioned before but Johnson and Garcia tried to find a home for the Guardians that fit better than cavernous MetLife Stadium and weren't able to do so.

The UFL has the smallest total TV Markets of any league year sans 2019 AAF, and half of 2020 XFL.

Even if true—it's not because the 2022 and 2023 USFL both had far smaller footprints—the ratings are much better, too. And if the 2022 USFL can pull off the scam of calling teams "New Jersey" and "Philadelphia" without having ever played a single game anywhere near there, why couldn't Fox do the same with a team that, unlike the New York Giants and New York Jets, actually plays in New York State? If TV eyeballs are what's important, roll with it.

 

Pt 1 - I did read the post, and while that may be true it doesn't compensate for the sheer (lack of) size.

Pt 2 - The regulations are not negotiable, the hubs help - but they are still doing biz in NY State.

Pt 3 - Philly is the 4th largest TV market and in the NE (2.51% nielsen alone).   NY/NNJ (6.26%) speaks for itself.  What other EST/CST cities are there are of this size to best impact viewership?  Franklin field and the Lync are in Philly and Subaru Park is just outside, which avoids philly taxes, regs and costs.

Pt 4 - Keep in mind the USFL had 715k or 747k viewer avg (depends how you treat simlucasted opener) - the merger worked and being in cities helped.  And I actually do not think a team in Rochester will get any media attention in NYC area.  Also remember XFL2020 was in 22% of nielson HH markets and UFL is only in 11.3% - This very well may account for the diff in ratings.

I have nothing against Rochester the city, but UFL looking to build the brand needs to be in bigger markets IMO and I'm sure UFL's too.

[GDAWG]

If the final number of UFL teams is 16, the other 8 teams should not be from just major media markets.  There should be an even mix, 4 and 4, with Rochester in the 4 smaller markets and the league can have Rochester and Philly and New York/New Jersey.  It doesn't have to be either or.  The NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL and MLS all have a mix of large and small markets.  In the NHL, they just departed Phoenix for the smaller Salt Lake City, but they can afford to do that because they have two teams in LA, three teams in the NYC Metro area and teams in Philly, Chicago and Dallas (and this is excluding Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver).  

The UFL can have Rochester in the league with the Philly Stars and New Jersey Generals.  The UFL's next 8 teams (if they ever get there) should not be all massive TV markets.  

[johnnyangryfuzzball]

And for the record, I was just saying Rochester as an example of a smaller-ish-to-mid-market team that would be viable. There are a dozen cities as good or better, as I noted upthread. There's a lot that goes into what makes a good market. And ironically, since we're talking second-tier football, big market size may be a net NEGATIVE—with lack of affordable stadium options, and fans looking down on the product.

Philadelphia is not a good market. You have one option, a grossly oversized (and almost certainly overpriced) Eagles stadium. You have MLS, MLB, and lacrosse (NLL) competing for the spring sports dollar, and NHL and NBA if they go for the post-Super Bowl sesaon. It doesn't really matter what the raw numbers are if you're dividing those raw numbers a dozen different ways.

[johnnyangryfuzzball]

Pt 2 - The regulations are not negotiable, the hubs help - but they are still doing biz in NY State.

I literally just gave you an example of how it works in the state I LIVE IN, and you're telling me I'm a liar.

Get outta here

[GDAWG]

I hear the suggestions of Oakland and San Diego, with the belief that if they are in the UFL, they might have St. Louis levels of attendance.  Obviously, the price to put teams in California is high and we've discussed it, but there are also other issues.  For San Diego, it's all about the availability of 5 dates for spring football at Snapdragon Stadium as in the Spring/Summer, they host the San Diego Legion of Major League Rugby and San Diego Wave of the NWSL and starting in 2025, they will host an MLS team in San Diego FC, so it's not like Snapdragon Stadium will remain empty from January to September, in fact, they will be quite busy from March all the way to December.  For Oakland, the Oakland Coliseum is in awful shape and the other solution nearby (the University of California) in Berkeley (which is next door to Oakland) may not be interested.  If the UFL ever goes to the Bay Area, it's probably going to be San Jose.    

[4th&long]

Pt 2 - The regulations are not negotiable, the hubs help - but they are still doing biz in NY State.

I literally just gave you an example of how it works in the state I LIVE IN, and you're telling me I'm a liar.

Get outta here

I'm not calling you a liar, stop.  NY is a high reg, expensive state to do business in, so is NJ.  CA is worse. That's not a secret. The league will need a good reason to operate there, that big mkts.  Thats all I'm saying.  Having joint operations/practices in Tx is one way they mitigate costs.  Being in TX and other southern states is cost driven.

[GDAWG]

I don't think teams in the XFL Conference need to have mascots, but if they do, one of them needs to adopt Blob as a mascot.