Theoretical Discussion: Possible expansion cities and mascots

[4th&long]

The UFL could, in theory, announce expansion this off season but announce that the teams won't begin play until 2026 to give the 2026 teams leeway to build their teams.

 

Exactly, this is what I stated in my post above.  In addition it may come with other "good" news, I'm guessing a TV deal with WB-D's TNT. Or if not, perhaps another media partner or sponsorship deal.

[laxtreme56]

Reid from The Markcast had Ben Fischer from SBJ on his show last week. It was a really interesting discussion going into the finances of the league, ratings and attendance expectations as well as expansion. Fischer made a good point in saying the goal is not so much about maximizing revenue but minimizing expenses. That's why we're staying at 8 teams in 2025, and seeing other cost cutting expenses like seasonal workers and reduced coaching salaries. I'd honestly be fine with 8 teams again in 2026 (assuming we get that far) then 2 teams in 2027 and top out at 12 teams by 2030.

[GregParks]

Reid from The Markcast had Ben Fischer from SBJ on his show last week. It was a really interesting discussion going into the finances of the league, ratings and attendance expectations as well as expansion. Fischer made a good point in saying the goal is not so much about maximizing revenue but minimizing expenses. That's why we're staying at 8 teams in 2025, and seeing other cost cutting expenses like seasonal workers and reduced coaching salaries. I'd honestly be fine with 8 teams again in 2026 (assuming we get that far) then 2 teams in 2027 and top out at 12 teams by 2030.

I think a lot of expansion, too, depends on whether or not they can get interest from people in eventually selling these franchises. Expanding to 12 teams is great...if you feel like you can sell them off for whatever figure you, as ownership, deem appropriate. If you keep expanding and expanding and no one is biting on buying these franchises, then ownership is going to keep incurring the cost of running them into the future. This, of course, assumes that selling the franchises is the end game for ownership to make their investment and then some back. 

[GDAWG]

So if they were to expand, should they bring back the defunct teams from the XFL and USFL into the areas that they were assigned?  Relocate them to new cities?  Or have teams 9 and 10 be all new teams?  It will be interesting to see how they approach expansion.  Out of the USFL teams that didn't make it, it will be really hard for the Maulers to play an actual game in Pittsburgh because they only have one option: where the Steelers play.  Sure, New Jersey and Philly have more options, but there's also no guarantee that the MLS teams or College teams in those two areas will be open to the USFL and the NFL stadiums might be quite expensive.  Out of the 4 USFL teams, the Breakers going to New Orleans will be easier because they were rumored to be headed to the Shrine pre merger and that stadium will be renovated to prevent a Vipers-Cashman Field situation. As for the XFL?  That is interesting.  Vegas will probably never be in the UFL unless they land an MLS team (which they eventually will but not anytime soon).  Seattle could return if there are teams nearby as well.   The Guardians are an interesting case.  I can see them staying in Orlando if the Generals are able to play at Red Bull Arena or even Rutgers because I would suspect that the UFL may decide that one team in the New York City market would be enough.  They could go back to New York and wait and see if New York City FC will allow them to play at their new stadium (no guarantee of that happening) if they can't get a stadium for the Generals.  

I am also not sure the UFL will work in Atlanta, Chicago, Denver, Los Angeles or Phoenix either.  Chicago's history of supporting Alternative football has not been great but it does have the market size for TV (same for Los Angeles).  Denver is sort of like Pittsburgh in a way in that there's a massively large NFL stadium that might be too expensive, but unlike Pittsburgh, Denver does have an MLS team, but they play in the suburbs and there's no guarantee that the Colorado Rapids will want football played at their place.  The AAF did not work in Phoenix and State Farm Stadium in Glendale is probably too expensive.

As for Mid market cities, there are two places automatically eliminated from contention should the UFL expand in the future: Oklahoma City and Milwaukee.  Milwaukee has no football stadium within their city limits or in the suburbs large enough (at least 15,000 seats) to house a UFL team.  With Oklahoma City, there's the suburb of Norman, but there's no guarantee that the University of Oklahoma will be as open to the UFL as Rice and Houston were for the Roughnecks.  Also, that stadium seats 80,000, which is quite massive and OU doesn't need the influx of cash.  

[BattleHawks]

All good points with one minor correction

College teams are all newly desperate for cash

They are about to add sponsors names to fields and even to conferences

[4th&long]

Reid from The Markcast had Ben Fischer from SBJ on his show last week. It was a really interesting discussion going into the finances of the league, ratings and attendance expectations as well as expansion. Fischer made a good point in saying the goal is not so much about maximizing revenue but minimizing expenses. That's why we're staying at 8 teams in 2025, and seeing other cost cutting expenses like seasonal workers and reduced coaching salaries. I'd honestly be fine with 8 teams again in 2026 (assuming we get that far) then 2 teams in 2027 and top out at 12 teams by 2030.



 

Watched as well.  Ben's point on minimizing expenses - was that's how the UFL approach is - good or bad.  Its certainly one of the reasons for 2025 staying at 8 teams - for sure. 

I'm ok with 8 teams in 2026 as well.  Its all good with 4 games a week.  But TNT just lost its biggest sports product (losing NBA after 2024-25 season) and needs programming in 2026.  Paying $30-50mm for 11-13 games in a newly expanded 10 team UFL would pay for itself and establish the leagues TV value in the $150-200mm range.  That will help get outside ownership too.  So I think 2026 expansion is likely going to happen.

[GDAWG]

All good points with one minor correction

College teams are all newly desperate for cash

They are about to add sponsors names to fields and even to conferences

Even if OU wants cash, I doubt that they will ever want a UFL team to play at their stadium.  

[johnnyangryfuzzball]

All good points with one minor correction

College teams are all newly desperate for cash

They are about to add sponsors names to fields and even to conferences

Even if OU wants cash, I doubt that they will ever want a UFL team to play at their stadium.  

I can't say that with any sort of certainty given that such a request has probably never been made before. Oklahoma hasn't had a pro football team in the STATE—let alone OKC metro—since 1983. But they have the NBA's Thunder—so it's big enough to have a major league team but so far it's been overlooked by other pro leagues. Their TV ratings, if I recall right, were among the UFL's best, if only out of interest in Bob Stoops.

And perhaps the UFL, having its teams in Texas and St. Louis (and right smack dab in the middle is OKC right there) might well be unique in how well it would fit the OKC market. (As long as you don't name it the Bombers...) Not that the UFL's going to be throwing around money, but this isn't like the crowded East Coast market. You're bringing a brand the city likes, to an outpost that doesn't get attention elsewhere.

Also, keep in mind, the University of Oklahoma is owned by the state of Oklahoma as a public university. If the state says they want the UFL to play in Norman, the UFL will have a team in Norman. It's effectively a public facility. So it's not like on the East Coast where most of the college stadiums are privately owned and can have a lot more leeway to thumb their noses at the UFL.

[GDAWG]

All good points with one minor correction

College teams are all newly desperate for cash

They are about to add sponsors names to fields and even to conferences

Even if OU wants cash, I doubt that they will ever want a UFL team to play at their stadium.  

I can't say that with any sort of certainty given that such a request has probably never been made before. Oklahoma hasn't had a pro football team in the STATE—let alone OKC metro—since 1983. But they have the NBA's Thunder—so it's big enough to have a major league team but so far it's been overlooked by other pro leagues. Their TV ratings, if I recall right, were among the UFL's best, if only out of interest in Bob Stoops.

And perhaps the UFL, having its teams in Texas and St. Louis (and right smack dab in the middle is OKC right there) might well be unique in how well it would fit the OKC market. (As long as you don't name it the Bombers...) Not that the UFL's going to be throwing around money, but this isn't like the crowded East Coast market. You're bringing a brand the city likes, to an outpost that doesn't get attention elsewhere.

Also, keep in mind, the University of Oklahoma is owned by the state of Oklahoma as a public university. If the state says they want the UFL to play in Norman, the UFL will have a team in Norman. It's effectively a public facility. So it's not like on the East Coast where most of the college stadiums are privately owned and can have a lot more leeway to thumb their noses at the UFL.

Wiki says that the stadium is owned by the University of Oklahoma

[steve42]

As much as this might make me look like a crank and, well, an angry little fuzz ball... this is kind of a pointless exercise. There's no point in discussing new markets when the UFL flat-out came out and said there won't be any new markets.

It's not pointless... it's the offseason.  ESPN has gone back to ignoring the UFL and there's only so many times that I can re-watch the games on DVR, so it's fun to think about.  That's also why I chose to create this thread rather than continue in the other one.  I didn't want to hijack real conversations with an exercise in speculation and dream sequences.